GX200 vs. LX3 - full size photos

[odklizec]

Hi folks,

Here you can find first set of GX200/LX3 photos. Links to full resolution JPEG and RAW files will appear soon as well as some comments to these photos.

GX200

Even though the shutter speed used in this photo is faster than in case of LX3 shot, the GX200 photo seems to be slightly overexposed. Nothing dramatic, I'm sure it can be fixed in RAW. It's just another example of visibly better LX3 dynamic range. Larger sensor and less MP count is a key of success. It's a pity Ricoh is not making their own sensors and therefore have to buy what's available on the market.

R1067030_sm.jpg (385.16 KiB) Viewed 25081 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:58 am

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/760 Sec

F-number: F/5.4

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/760 f5.4 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1067030.JPG
R1067030.DNG

LX3

P1010164_sm.jpg (409.84 KiB) Viewed 24946 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:02 am

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/500 Sec

F-number: F/5.6

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/500 f5.6 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1010164.JPG
P1010164.RW2

GX200

R1066898_sm.jpg (406.38 KiB) Viewed 24801 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:48 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/176 Sec

F-number: F/5.1

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/176 f5.1 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1066898.JPG
R1066898.DNG

LX3

Although it's not visible in this JPEG, if you open below linked RAW in Rawtherapee (with default settings), you will be surprised by the amount of blue sky and visible clouds in what you now see as a pure white sky ;) LX3 RAWs allows to restore an incredible amount of details from highlights (speaking of small sensor camera). GX200 allows to restore some details too, but not as much as LX3.

P1000418_sm.jpg (376.16 KiB) Viewed 24731 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:49 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/200 Sec

F-number: F/5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/200 f5.0 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1000418.JPG
P1000418.RW2

GX200

Both in this and below LX3 photo was used fill flash. GX200 did apparently better job with exposure metering and WB.

R1066899_sm.jpg (329.52 KiB) Viewed 24429 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:53 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/660 Sec

F-number: F/5.1

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash fired, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/660 F5.1 ISO100 -0.3EV + forced flash
R1066899.JPG
R1066899.DNG

LX3

Here you can see how bad can LX3 perform with WB and fill flash. Of course, the LX3 WB and flash performance can be fine tuned. But then you can miss the shot.

P1000422_sm.jpg (253.16 KiB) Viewed 24315 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:54 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/1000 Sec

F-number: F/5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash fired, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/1000 f5.0 ISO100 -0.3EV + fill flash
P1000422.JPG
P1000422.RW2

GX200

On a closer look, this JPEG looks pretty bad, mainly due to noise reduction and too high level of sharpening. However, it can be dramatically improved by processing the RAW file. I will upload a comparison later tomorrow or during the weekend.

R1066893_sm.jpg (314.19 KiB) Viewed 23961 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:29 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/32 Sec

F-number: F/2.5

ISO speed rating: 400

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/32 f2.5 ISO400 -0.3EV
R1066893.JPG
R1066893.DNG

LX3

WB is completely wrong in this LX3 shot, however, noise and noise reduction artifacts are significantly smaller and very acceptable.

P1000412_sm.jpg (230.87 KiB) Viewed 23805 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:31 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/30 Sec

F-number: F/2.5

ISO speed rating: 400

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/30 f2.5 ISO400 -0.3EV
P1000412.JPG
P1000412.RW2

GX200

R1066649_sm.jpg (302.72 KiB) Viewed 23673 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:09 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/1320 Sec

F-number: F/4.6

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/1320 f4.6 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1066649.JPG
R1066649.DNG

LX3

P1000333_sm.jpg (270.34 KiB) Viewed 23594 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:09 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/1300 Sec

F-number: F/4.5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Center-weighted average

1/1300 f4.5 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1000333.JPG
P1000333.RW2

GX200

R1066659_sm.jpg (332.01 KiB) Viewed 22921 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:31 pm

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/290 Sec

F-number: F/5.4

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/290 f5.4 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1066659.JPG
R1066659.DNG

LX3

P1000354_sm.jpg (309.77 KiB) Viewed 22866 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:32 pm

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/320 Sec

F-number: F/5.6

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Center-weighted average

1/320 f5.6 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1000354.JPG
P1000354.RW2

GX200

R1066661_sm.jpg (542.52 KiB) Viewed 22793 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:34 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/270 Sec

F-number: F/5.7

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash fired, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/270 f5.7 ISO100 -0.3EV + fill flash
R1066661.JPG
R1066661.DNG

LX3

P1000362_sm.jpg (580.77 KiB) Viewed 22704 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:37 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/200 Sec

F-number: F/5.6

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash fired, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Center-weighted average

1/200 f5.6 ISO100 -0.3EV + fill flash
P1000362.JPG
P1000362.RW2

GX200

R1066651_sm.jpg (159.56 KiB) Viewed 22502 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:15 pm

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/1410 Sec

F-number: F/6.1

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/1410 f6.1 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1066651.JPG
R1066651.DNG

LX3

P1000337_sm.jpg (166.39 KiB) Viewed 22458 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:16 pm

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/1600 Sec

F-number: F/6.3

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Manual

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Center-weighted average

1/1600 f6.3 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1000337.JPG
P1000337.RW2

GX200

R1066981_sm.jpg (415.82 KiB) Viewed 22541 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:12 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/64 Sec

F-number: F/2.5

ISO speed rating: 400

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/64 f2.5 ISO400 -0.3EV
R1066981.JPG
R1066981.DNG

LX3

P1010106_sm.jpg (393.13 KiB) Viewed 22434 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:14 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/50 Sec

F-number: F/2.5

ISO speed rating: 400

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: 0 EV

Metering mode: Center-weighted average

1/50 f2.5 ISO400
P1010106.JPG
P1010106.RW2

[odklizec]

As promised yesterday, here you can see both GX200 and LX3 RAWs processed in RAWTherapee. Processed with color noise reduction and slightly enhanced colors (color boost).

GX200

R1066893_rt_sm.jpg (261.09 KiB) Viewed 22599 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:29 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/32 Sec

F-number: F/2.5

ISO speed rating: 400

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/32 f2.5 ISO400 -0.3EV
RAW processed in Rawtherapee
R1066893_rt.JPG

LX3

P1000412_rt_sm.jpg (177.53 KiB) Viewed 22500 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:31 pm

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/30 Sec

F-number: F/2.5

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/30 f2.5 ISO400 -0.3EV
RAW processed in Rawtherapee
P1000412_rt.JPG

[dbonardi]

Thanks for this illuminating comparison.

From the photos that you have posted it appears that the GX200's auto white balance does a better job than the LX3's. Would you say that this is generally true?

Also, does the GX200 suffer from the same lens wobble issue as the GX100?

[odklizec]

Hi dbonardi and welcome on board!

Not only Auto WB but all GX200 WB presets works visibly better than LX3 WB. GX200 Auto WB is not cure for all lightning situations. I usually use Cloudy WB for most outside photos and Auto WB or Incandescent WB for most inside photos. However, I'm a RAW shooter, so WB does not mean much to me I'm using JPEG only for basic preview.

As for lens wobbling, I think it's the same as in case of GX100. But I don't think it's a problem. Honestly, this famous GX lens wobbling is only a "problem" if you intentionally wobble with lens. With normal camera use, you will not notice it. So there is nothing to worry about. If you think the lens wobbling is a cause of dust spots on CCD or in lens, I can assure you that the same problem is reported with other brands too.

[odklizec]

Here is one more little side-by-side test. This time, I would like to show you the major difference between LX3 and GX200. Ricoh cameras are known as a fantastic Macro performers. This test proves that GX200 is no different.

The shortest macro distance at wide end is the same 1cm for both cameras. However, there is a major difference at tele end. While GX200 is capable to focus at 3cm (at maximum tele) the shortest macro distance for LX3 tele is about 25cm.

Here is comparison of both cameras at wide end...
GX200

R1067077_wide_macro_1cm_sm.jpg (261.49 KiB) Viewed 21669 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:38 am

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/9 Sec

F-number: F/4.1

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

R1067077_wide_macro_1cm.JPG
R1067077.DNG

LX3

P1010239_wide_macro_1cm_sm.jpg (233.96 KiB) Viewed 21627 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:41 am

Focus length: 5.1 mm

Shutter speed: 1/8 Sec

F-number: F/4

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

P1010239_wide_macro_1cm.JPG
P1010239.DNG

And here is the same test at tele end...
GX200 - GX200 at 72mm can focus in macro mode at 3cm distance

R1067076_tele_macro_3cm_sm.jpg (227.91 KiB) Viewed 21558 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:37 am

Focus length: 15.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/14 Sec

F-number: F/4.4

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

R1067076_tele_macro_3cm.JPG
R1067076.DNG

LX3 - this is the closest distance (25cm) you can get with LX3 at tele end and be able to lock the focus up (there is no difference in manual focus mode)

P1010240_tele_macro_25cm_sm.jpg (183.69 KiB) Viewed 21508 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:43 am

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/10 Sec

F-number: F/4

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

P1010240_tele_macro_25cm.JPG
P1010240.DNG

[odklizec]

And here are some more photos from yesterday. All these photos were taken at 60mm focal length with more or less the same settings, framing and distance from photographed subjects. You know, handheld shots Oh and GX200 is only approximately set to 60mm. There is no 60mm step on GX200 step zoom scale, so it's zoomed somewhere between the 50 and 72mm. But it's almost correct

GX200

R1067070_sm.jpg (340.96 KiB) Viewed 21440 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:54 pm

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/34 Sec

F-number: F/3.8

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/34 f3.8 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1067070.JPG
R1067070.DNG

LX3

P1010228_sm.jpg (343.06 KiB) Viewed 21399 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:54 pm

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/25 Sec

F-number: F/3.5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/25 f3.5 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1010228.JPG
P1010228.DNG

GX200

R1067061_sm.jpg (285.28 KiB) Viewed 21865 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/52 Sec

F-number: F/3.8

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: 3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/52 f3.8 ISO100 0.3EV
R1067061.JPG
R1067061.DNG

LX3

P1010223_sm.jpg (273.99 KiB) Viewed 21803 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:53 pm

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/40 Sec

F-number: F/3.5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: 33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/40 f3.5 ISO100 +0.3EV
P1010223.JPG
P1010223.DNG

Below two photos are a good example of visibly smoother and more blurred background in case of LX3. Both photos were taken with very similar F numbers (f3.5 for LX3 vs. f3.8 for GX200), so I believe it's not the cause of such visible difference in blurry background. In my opinion, it's slightly larger LX3 sensor with less megapixels, that causes such difference.
GX200

R1067052_sm.jpg (377.6 KiB) Viewed 21274 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:47 pm

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/14 Sec

F-number: F/3.8

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/14 f3.8 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1067052.JPG
R1067052.DNG

LX3

P1010217_sm.jpg (370.65 KiB) Viewed 21351 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:46 pm

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/15 Sec

F-number: F/3.5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/15 f3.5 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1010217.JPG
P1010217.DNG

Below two photos are different mainly because of changed lightning between the shots. So this is probably not very correct comparison. However, the GX200 shot is much closer to reality.
GX200

R1067037_sm.jpg (263.89 KiB) Viewed 21704 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:32 pm

Focus length: 12.3 mm

Shutter speed: 1/55 Sec

F-number: F/3.8

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: RICOH GX200

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -3/10 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/55 f3.8 ISO100 -0.3EV
R1067037.JPG
R1067037.DNG

LX3

P1010208_sm.jpg (272.24 KiB) Viewed 21615 times

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EXIF-Data

Image taken on: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:35 pm

Focus length: 12.8 mm

Shutter speed: 1/20 Sec

F-number: F/3.5

ISO speed rating: 100

Whitebalance: Auto

Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

Camera-model: DMC-LX3

Exposure program: Aperture priority

Exposure bias: -33/100 EV

Metering mode: Pattern

1/20 f3.5 ISO100 -0.3EV
P1010208.JPG
P1010208.DNG

[erik&ricoh]

I am brand new to this forum, but I have shot with Ricoh cameras since the GR. Love them. Have only Ricoh GX100 now and am considering GX200 or LX3. I am tortured between the two. Here is how I see them… please, any wisdom is welcome!

GX200 (+ for "good point" and - for "bad point" for both cameras)
+ it produces a DNG
+ I already know most of the functions from the GX100
+ love the WB as shown in your samples
+ fast RAW burst (really, 5 fps????)
- rough looking pixels at even ISO 100 compared to the LX3
+ intervolometer (spelling?) can be programmed to do auto shots every 5, 10, whatever seconds
+ flash compensation (about time!)
-- POOR high ISO performance, especially compared to LX3

Lumix LX3
- no DNG (and sadly, the .rw2 files here didn't download correctly so I can't compare RAW vs. RAW from these files)
- WB not so great compared to Ricoh
- shorter zoom lens
+ faster aperture
+ incredibly sharp
+ smoother files even at ISO 100
+ external hot shoe (very useful for a wireless transmitter for off-camera flash -- YES!)
- no flash compensation -- and nearly ALL on-camera flash needs to be compensated
++ MUCH better high ISO performance (are there comparisons posted at 800 and 1600?) This is

So there it is. Each has some really great charms, and each has some drawbacks. I'M STILL STUCK and need help!

Main issues I can't seem to clarify:
* High ISO comparison / performance. This matters a LOT. Many, many of the shots I do are done in low light. The LX3 seems to completely kick butt at these higher ISOs. As seen on dpreview.com, the LX3 is amazing for a P&S at high ISOs, smacking down even the G10 easily.
* to the point above, is the GX200 any better at higher ISOs than the GX100 was?
* flash use. I ALWAYS use some sort of compensation in flash, and if the LX3 comes on strong like the GX100, but has no solution, it's a problem.

I am VERY VERY grateful for the comparison shots here, and am eager to see if there are high-ISO comparisons coming. That is the deciding factor for me now, I think.

What's everyone's wisdom on my dilemma?

Erik

p.s. I'm a professional location/advertising photographer in Colorado, USA and use Canon's big-gun cameras for my work, so I'm used to total control, but demand a SMALL camera like only Ricoh has made so far (and now Panasonic?)

[odklizec]

Hi Erik and welcome on board! I fully understand your dilemma Both GX200 and LX3 are great cameras with their pros and cons.

At first, few clarifications in your pros and cons...
GX200
+ fast RAW burst (really, 5 fps????) - Unfortunately not. These 5 frames are not "frames per second" but total number of RAW+JPEG frames one can take in one burst. LX3 can take only 3 consecutive frames. However, the actual FPS is 2.5 for LX3 and 1.7FPS for GX200. See my comment about burst speed here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1946&start=10#p7342

LX3
- no DNG (and sadly, the .rw2 files here didn't download correctly so I can't compare RAW vs. RAW from these files) - Try download them using a download manager with "resume" functionality (for example getright). Also, for true comparison of RW2 and DNG use either dcraw (command line) or RawTherapee. Both these programs are free of Panasonic "magic" done over the RW2 files in Silkypix and probably some other RAW editors (I mean automatic barrel distortion fix or chromatic aberration fix).
- WB not so great compared to Ricoh- LX3 WB performance is improved with the latest available FW. However, GX200 is still better
+ incredibly sharp - If you compare JPEG files, then yes, LX3 may appear sharper. But it's mainly because of lower NR and stronger in-camera Sharpening. I think GX200 is slightly sharper in RAW.
- no flash compensation -- and nearly ALL on-camera flash needs to be compensated - LX3 of course does have Flash compensation functionality. GX200 just provides not only flash compensation but also full manual flash mode.

As for high ISO performance, there is no contest. LX3 is in my opinion the best current compact camera for this task. I mean the best universal and pocketable camera with zoom. I still prefer GRDII over LX3, GX200 or GX100. GRDII is simply better camera in all aspects. It's lens is sharper with minimal barrel distortion or chromatic aberration. ISO performance is more or less the same in both cameras and GRDII sensor produces warmer colors (which I prefer).

GX200 is clearly outperformed by LX3 in high ISO. But it's not a big surprise. GX200 is outperformed even by GX100 or GRDII. Simply, the actual 12MP sensor cannot beat good 10MP sensor of the same or larger size. Unfortunately, this is the price we pay for high MP count. And because Ricoh is not making their own sensors, we can only hope that 3rd party sensor makers will stop their silly MP war (as Panasonic already did). All we need is good 10MP sensor of the LX3 (or better) performance. But I'm afraid, next GX will "surprise" us with another 12MP or even worse 14MP sensor. But there is always a hope Ricoh will surprise us with something completely different? Just wait and see...

[erik&ricoh]

Thanks so much for your input. Yes. I did get some facts wrong (fps, LX3 flash compensation).

It's agonizing, as this is THE camera I carry around 100% of the time (not the 20kilo backpack with pro gear in it).

Each has its really strong points… and after reading more reviews on Ricoh forums (all of which love the GR as you do), I've decided to just sit tight, to keep the GX100 for now. Yeah, I don't like the slow RAW write times, but I don't use it often at all, mostly because the JPEG color balance and noise reduction are so amazing that I can seldom do better in RAW (I'm talking about ISO 200 or 400 indoor stuff, not ISO 80 landscapes where RAW is the clear winner).

I skipped a generation going from the Canon 1DsII to the 5DmkII (that is, skipping the 1DsIII) and I am absolutely sure I did the right thing there. I hear rumblings of a GX300… and I can probably wait a year. I just like so much about the Ricoh (and have ever since the film GR's). So I'll remain a Ricoh loyalist and hope for a smashing GX300! Your input definitely helped me stay Ricoh. Thanks.

Erik

[jani]

I bought GX200 VF KIT one month ago and it is my first "serius compact". I have took few thousands of photos with it already and I've been very pleased with the results.

It has been interesting to read LX3 / GX200 comparisons and both of them seems to have their pros and cons. I even considered to change my GX200 to LX3 after reading claims about better image quality of LX3 in some forums. Panasonic has done a really good job with "Venus Engine IV" and LEICA DC VARIO-SUMMICRON lens are also great:

http://www.panasonic.net/avc/lumix/comp ... #coloredge

It is good to compare Panasonic / Ricoh decision making process because Ricoh seems to have a little bit different "philosophy" for noise reduction etc.:

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gx/gx200/story/03/index.html

I have not even tried to turn noise reduction ON because I actually like about the idea that I can control noise by myself when editing images and keep all "expressionless image quality".

I downloaded all GX200 & LX3 RAW photos from here and in my opinion GX200 RAW photos are sharper with more details. They are also a bit brighter.

Simple example: Please compare P1000333.RW2 vs R1066649.DNG with Silkypix Developer Studio etc. With GX200 DNG you can easily read ( in 100% ) " vysoka kvalita - nizka cena " from bauMax sign - try to do it with LX3 RAW - impossible. LX3 noise reduction seems to affect a little bit for RAWs. Might be same for GX200 RAWs but Ricoh is friendly enough to give most of the RAW noise processing for us

In my opinion it is very easy to get rid of noise in most of situations - even SilkyPix NoiseReduction button does a miracle. Neat Image worked well ( and it is free for JPGs saving). With a little tweaking GX200 RAW images started to look really good. Most often I like to add more saturation, more blacks and sometimes more exposure. Very often I am doing a lot of more.

Remember to get correct color profile for RAW images from Adobe or here are couple of good profiles:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/arti ... r_acr.html

I am a graphic designer and I am mainly working with Adobe products ( like nearly all of us ) and I like more about DNG than .RW2 file format.

So for me photography is:

1. ( try to ) take nice images -> 2. post process images with photoshop etc. to make images looking as nice as you could

There are so many progs / filters for photoshop for removing noise that it should be no problem.

I tried to edit GX200 / LX3 RAWs and also save a unprocessed RAWs as 16bit TIFF and edited them with the photoshop. I tried to make photos as good as I could ( following my personal taste ).

In the end ( after all tweaking in photoshop ) I liked more of brighter images of GX200. Sky is also more blue.

I could get what I wanted more easily from GX200 photos.

In my opinion GX200 photos are more neutral and it is easier to edit them. LX3 gives kinda "already" edited photos ( thanks to Venus Engine ) which is very good for many of us.

So at the end I guess it is matter of taste. Colours and everything looks pretty different in LX3 / GX200.

So before making a decision to sell a GX200 because some forums claims that LX3 has better image quality - try to download and edit sample images in this page - try to make photos look as good as you can - and then make a decision about image quality etc.

These are different cameras and they are producing different kind of images. So it is just about matter of taste.

I don't see GX200 noise or LX3 banner distortion as a problem. Both could be corrected in post processing.

I decided to keep my Ricoh GX200. At the end ( after all editing etc. ) I like GX200 images and a way how it handles colors more and it fits better for my personal taste and workflow. I could not get what I wanted out of LX3 raws.

I am also waiting for GX300. I might also get GR so I guess I am a new Ricoh fan.

GX200 is also REALLY GOOD for macro photographing. Get 135 mm Tele and results are excellent. It is also easier to take photos from insects etc. because you don't need to take your photos from so close as with LX3 ( they told us to "just step close" but when I try butterflies and insects are gone ).

Digital Toyshop has 216mm 3x lens for GX200, might be even funnier for macro:

http://www.digitaltoyshop.co.uk/prodtyp ... plio_GX200