The next Ricoh GR

Discussion about Ricoh GR

Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Blow-in » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:39 am

I think we had a similar discussion about the GRD4 replacement. As I recall thoughts were along the lines of:

1 - a bigger sensor
2- an EVF or OVF either built-in (sacrifice the flash) or on the hot shoe or possibly an off camera remote EVF
3 - very split views about focal lengths. A strong input that to be a GRD it had to be 28 mm (although there was always the GR21 to dispute this) whereas some wanted 40 mm as an option
4 - possbily a monochrome version
5- imperative that the camera didn't grow in size or lose existing features such as 'snap'.

The GR clearly delivered on 1 and came close to 5. I think Tom is right; the GR is as big as it can get and still be that portable stealth camera

So, as Tom has repeated many times and has been supported by others on the forum, surely the way ahead to deliver 2, 3 & 4 is a 'GXR2'. There could even by a FF version based on an 'M' module (or even a PK module). The only bit of '5' that can't be done is the size but the GXR is still a cmpact system and only needs a small bag.

Richard
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Tom Caldwell » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:36 am

Thanks Richard,

I "solved" the size problem in my own inimitable way by designing two GXR camera back successors. Even if we only ever got one we might be happy.

1) as small as possible, no built in evf or tilt screen. Probabaly have to sacrifice the built in flash. Try and get the top of the camer as close to the GXR mount rails as possible - ie: something that is not that much bigger than the present GR in concept - but of course different modules would give widely different results. The S10 and P10 would immediately be more compact but I see their aging as being of no deep consequence - those that had them would have another outlet for these modules which still can take great images. As far as flash is concerned - I noted some talk of lcd based built in flash - such flash types could be squeezed into a smaller space than the present unit - so a flash might still be possible in this smaller camera back. The GXR of course has snap focus so that would continue.

And a tiny aps-c A12 mount module camera such as this would be very nice indeed.

2) a "size is not of the essence" GXR back with built in evf and til screen - still compact but more of the present GXR size with necessary adjustments.

Of course we would need some more modules. Currently I think that Ricoh needs an electronic short flange focal distance mount and I am suggesting that they pass on yet another short flange back mount and adopt the Sony E mount. I am sure that an "E mount consortium" would be more viable than the 4/3 consortium as it gives access to aps-c and FF sensor sizes.

Then build an electronic adapter tube to PK mount lenses - perfect.

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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby thelps » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:12 am

To a large degree I will just be happy if Ricoh just keep making a GR II and keep updating the line with some if any of the upgrades we have mentioned here.
There is a need to continue to develop the camera though as the boundaries by phone cams are pushing from below.
Tim
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Soul_Est » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:52 pm

At this moment, after reading several reviews and handling the camera myself, I can only ask for a few things:

    A larger buffer. According to the performance tests of imaging resource (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/ricoh-gr/ricoh-grA6.HTM), the buffer fills up either after 20 large JPEGs, 4(!) RAW, or 4(!) RAW + large JPEGs. Given the file sizes, I calculated the buffer to be between 100 MB and 150 MB in size. I hope that we can get at least 5-7 RAW shots in a single second before waiting for the images to be written to SD card. If physical buffer cannot be increased, I do hope that Ricoh will allow for the internal storage of 54 MB to be used as a second, slower buffer in both cameras.

    Make the trim ring a cap with a rubber seal to protect the sensor and extending lens from dust that can be sucked in. At least offer said trim cap as an accessory. If not, I'm looking at designing and printing my own for the current GR. This cap would not be needed should Ricoh implement the next item which is...


    planet360 mentioned having the Foveon sensor in the next GR (http://ricohforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11364#p63248). I'd like to see the next GR with the same Sony sourced sensor that current GR uses but with a X-Trans filter on top. That colour filter handles scenes with moire and low light levels very well from what I've seen myself. Biggest issue for either sensor setup for me would be lack of native support in darktable.
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby wimvangrinsven » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:45 pm

1. Weatherproof
2. Faster AF
3. Stabilization
4. Wifi
5. Same size!
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Tom Caldwell » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:15 pm

wimvangrinsven wrote:1. Weatherproof
2. Faster AF
3. Stabilization
4. Wifi
5. Same size!


Weatherproof: Depends upon what is meant by "weatherproof" - Ricoh made a series of industrial level rugged (real) weatherproof cameras in earlier days, they were heavier, bulkier, more expensive and had slightly reduced performance. They sold in small numbers for probably these very reasons, but they were good. It might be difficult to fully weatherproof the GR lens.

Faster AF: bring back the pdaf window and auto-snap from the GRDIV?

Stabilisation: Bigger? Ricoh patented what looked like a stabilised module system for the GXR some time ago using the Pentax sensor based stabilisation. They could do it but it would have to be aps-c and probably as a GXR module.

Wifi: useful as much as headlight washers on cars are more useful to some than others.

Same Size: We could always wish, and any bigger and then even the biggest pockets would be too small.

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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby ProfWolfMan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:48 pm

I feel, POCKETABLE is the one of the power of GR. Without change in size, any improvement is nice.[GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby thelps » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:27 am

Tom Caldwell wrote:Wifi: useful as much as headlight washers on cars are more useful to some than others.


Hehe :lol: , I found this funny as I've just sold off my old SAAB 9000 and that had headlight washers.
I never actually saw them move from the drivers seat.

Tom Caldwell wrote:Same Size: We could always wish, and any bigger and then even the biggest pockets would be too small.


Thinking about size, the height and width of the current GR is about perfect for me, if anything I'd prefer to see the next one thinner [says me, who doesn't have to design it :oops: :lol: ]
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Tom Caldwell » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:04 am

thelps wrote:
Tom Caldwell wrote:Wifi: useful as much as headlight washers on cars are more useful to some than others.


Hehe :lol: , I found this funny as I've just sold off my old SAAB 9000 and that had headlight washers.
I never actually saw them move from the drivers seat.

Tom Caldwell wrote:Same Size: We could always wish, and any bigger and then even the biggest pockets would be too small.


Thinking about size, the height and width of the current GR is about perfect for me, if anything I'd prefer to see the next one thinner [says me, who doesn't have to design it :oops: :lol: ]


Tim in some parts of the world headlight washers would be good but not around these parts and one might wonder what they might do to the headlights in a grasshopper plague ...

A far as "thin" goes - would thin as a mobile phone do?

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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby tooppy » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:12 am

- Bigger would be a big mistake, a big no no no as far I am concerned the smaller the better ! So make it smaller please if you can !
-The main reason I didn't buy it is one single focale length
- But there are few others reasons why I didn't buy : no tilting screen , no possibility to fix an EVF. But if EVF it has to be first rate !
- Pentax makes its cameras (helas not all) working with AA batteries, every camera should work with these batteries. I have a camera which sit here, the batteries do not hold the charge anymore, replacement is impossible to find. Two years ago when I stil could find it, it seems they made it out of gold ! Another reason for this is if you go somewhere where you cannot recharge your batterie, if you have with you some AA batteries you can operate. Common Ricoh do that for the next camera.
- May be a Fuji sensor for the next one. A Foveon sensor provide so much info that obviously the camera cannot be that responsive, and high ISO it's horrible, colour shifts even at base ISO etc.... it is not a good option.
- Full frame is expensive and not needed for 99% of us, it makes things bulkier, heavier, that's another wrong option.
- Otherwise, just change nothing, no touch screen, no stupid scene modes, no bullshit !
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