The next Ricoh GR

Discussion about Ricoh GR

Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby riccadonna » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:20 am

quester, you are my pal. How many times I pointed the advatages of GXR m-unit over NEX, Fuji, Pana and Oly, because when changing lenses its sensor is covered by shutter. And how many times I expressed my concern for exposed lens and inner lens barrel of GR. That`s why I still stick to GXR 28 which takes filter and is way more rugged then GR. Anyone that disagrees, please post some picts of Xavier storm taken with naked GR.
As you say Ricoh/Pentax expertise should result in all terrain, all weather, gale proof camera. That would set it apart from Fujji ,Nikon and Sony alikes.
Nikon tried with AW1 but it`s sealing and interface and sensor size are weak points.
p.s. I`m afraid it all falls on deaf ears at Ricoh. I´m waiting for m-unit with K5IIs sensor ( I can do without IS if not enough place ), the easiest thing for Ricoh to do, and nothing yet.
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby fitzhenry » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:06 am

I would take a second GR with a normal-ish lens. I can see having a two-GR combo (28 and 55 ) that would easily cover most of my needs, and I could fill in the rest with an other system, like a small M43 kit (eg. a cheap but great body like the EPL5 and a couple of the better primes). I'm ready to somewhat let go of the idea of compactness for a second GR as long as I still had it for with the original. So one is pocketable, take with you all the time. The other is in your bag or coat pocket. Still small, but it can be bigger, and since we're going bigger, make the lens pretty fast and give me a tiltable touchscreen. And move the exposure comp rocker (or make it lockable). And that's it. Aps-c is fine for me. Weather sealed would be nice, but that's a whole other thing. Fast lens, why not? Make it the category killer, for more money if that's what it takes, just not RX1 money.
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby thelps » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:30 am

quester wrote:Haven't got my GR yet, but I'd wait even longer if they'd announce that they're making an environmentally sealed version. Sorry to state this again, but I'd really like to see a manufacturer put out a serious WR compact with APS-C sensor, and the combined Ricoh/Pentax experience with weather-sealed cameras should make Ricoh Imaging the natural candidate. The ultimate backpacker's camera, and good for urban shooting in the rain.


That's a very valid point you make - I agree. The GR is for out of door more than in and a sealed one is worthwhile.

Further to this if possible I'd like to see a thinner GR body and if possible a fixed 28mm lens, even IF the lens protruded just a tad more than a powered off GR - could be too much to ask of the designers.
A fixed lens could improve power up time and make it easier to seal, added to which there would be no "air pump" (lens mechanism) to help dust gain ingress as riccadonna has mentioned.
Tim
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GR Monochrome

Postby N05J3W3 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:02 am

I'm in the same camp: like the GR design at present, but would most like to see something evolve that was optimized for monochrome.
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby maofun » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:09 pm

Hello,
I have a technical question about the expert compact GR. I have not found the answer in the manual or elsewhere.
When active the 35mm mode, it is clear that the image is no more than 10Mpx. Is it possible to make these in raw and not in jpeg ?
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby thelps » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:17 pm

maofun wrote:Hello,
I have a technical question about the expert compact GR. I have not found the answer in the manual or elsewhere.
When active the 35mm mode, it is clear that the image is no more than 10Mpx. Is it possible to make these in raw and not in jpeg ?


Hi and welcome to the forum, I collected this information and posted in an earlier post.
You can still take 35mm or 47mm in RAW
Just multiply the resolution numbers to get the Mpx. Yes - the 35mm versions of 3:2 and 4:3 are both close to 10Mpx.

Have a look here - http://ricohforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=10904
Tim
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Tom Caldwell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:21 pm

At the risk of reviving one of my old hobby-horses.

I once dreamed of a compact new GXR - one with the body size of a GRDIV - I fancied that this might be possible if the top plate was severly slimmed down, unfortunately I could not figure out how the flash unit might be saved and this caused me to wake up.

Since then of course we have the GR which is larger than the GRDIV but not quite as large as the GXR.

This ends up being a "pocketable" exercise. The first GRD was extremely pocketable, but I never carried it in my pocket fearing what other pocketed items or fluff might do to it - but it was certainly belt-wearable. 10 Years later my GRD still looks good and works well.

By the GRDIII/IV the pocketable exercise was pushed a little harder, and was duly accepted as still of "pocketable size". Even the GR has been loudly acclaimed as still pocketable despite the further "pork" added. Apparently whether or not the camera is actually pocketed the ability to be pocketable is prized.

I would say that it comes back to small size sells.

The GXR was deemed not-pocketable despite only being fractionally bigger than the GR. Placing the cameras side by side shows that only that part above the mount rails is extra and also that the grip is larger. The extra grip is useful for larger lenses anyway.

So the GXR came with the quite useful P10 and S10 with smaller sensor leveraged up by all the GXR technical goodies. The idea seems to have been to keep the GXR compact whilst providing folding collapsing zoom lenses with sensor tuned to the lenses installed. Immediately the gasps of too physically large for the sensor inside!

Less acceptance that the P10 at least was a pretty cheap entree into a new system. Too all intents and purposes the GXR was no longer a "pocketable" system and therefore had to be judged as a system camera with a very small range of "system lenses". Despite the efforts of some that "type designation" stuck. The alternative and reality being to see the GXR not so much as a system but a range of cameras.

The arrival of the M mount module was what made the GXR a "system" - albeit one that only took MF lenses.

Now we have a clamour for the GR to take over the role of the GXR, but in separate camera types. A sort of GXR where you cannot change backs. Hands up those who have multiple GXR camera backs? They might already be doing the multiple GR thing with some relish. The side benefit of the multiple camera backs and multiple units attached is that in a few minutes all your camera settings can be set exactly the same. Buy a new camera back and in no time at all it can be set to your carefully calculated settings made on your original. And they can be kept that way if your mood and experience changes.

So Ricoh takes the bait and makes more GR cameras. How long before the cameras are no longer "pocketable" - it defies all logic that multiple specified cameras can all be pockeatble and at least aps-c sensor as well.

So we might end up with a sort of GXR-lite where the body is a fixture and slowly over a period of years a number of not-pocketable models might appear to give a limited range of lenses. Note that users will naturally want to pick and choose which one or all of the different cameras that might be offered. This will not add much to Ricoh's market penetration despite adding a whole lot to the development cost and creating multiple stocks of models some of which will not be overly popular and it would be impossible to market the variety of models so that they would be "out of stock" roughly simultaneously so that a new model might appear "cleanly". As a result the slower ones would continue, perhaps for years afterwards. It would be impossible not to have the look-alike GR stay recognisable as the same model - they are bound to diverge in steps and stairs.

Go back to my first concept of a (now) GR type camera back which would have to be slightly bigger than the present GR but by incorporating the GXR mount rails would be backward compatible to every GXR camera mount made. This seems more sensible to me than making multiple GR models no matter how much individuals may want one of this or one of that.

Right now a more compact LM mount that was electronically enabled to take various electronic mount adapters - PK being obvious - would be very interesting. Perhaps a Sony E mount is another possibility - I have found the wonders of electronic adapter to the E mount for my Canon EF lenses. Maybe not done presently by any other camera company but I read somewhere many moons ago that Sony were happy for others to use their E mount. Probably if you are big enough to withstand a hug from a bear it might not be a bad idea as the E mount can be adapted to almost anything including LM and If I wanted to use my cavity-occupying Jupiter-12 then I can always use my mount module anyway.

Right now the E mount also caters for the FF sensor and Ricoh sources many major parts from Sony already.

Tom
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby thelps » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:08 am

Tom,
your ideas are an interesting read. I can see where you are coming from. Your ideas would weigh in well for a GXR II if it ever was in contention. - Maybe it is? :)
Personally I'd dump the internal flash unit. I believe many other would as well.
I will go on a limb and say there are more that would go without it for some kind of other advantage (size etc) than those who would demand it.
Why not an in camera wireless module to trigger an external only accessory flash? - bounce lighting anyone? - More revenue to be made with an accessory.

Some say stay pure to the 28mm equiv GR but I still wonder if a 50mm and a 21mm equiv versions, or pure BW would sell like hot cakes.
In the meantime I'll use the cameras I have.
Tim
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Tom Caldwell » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:19 am

thelps wrote:Tom,
your ideas are an interesting read. I can see where you are coming from. Your ideas would weigh in well for a GXR II if it ever was in contention. - Maybe it is? :)
Personally I'd dump the internal flash unit. I believe many other would as well.
I will go on a limb and say there are more that would go without it for some kind of other advantage (size etc) than those who would demand it.
Why not an in camera wireless module to trigger an external only accessory flash? - bounce lighting anyone? - More revenue to be made with an accessory.

Some say stay pure to the 28mm equiv GR but I still wonder if a 50mm and a 21mm equiv versions, or pure BW would sell like hot cakes.
In the meantime I'll use the cameras I have.


Tim - it just seems logical to me. But we all know that logic is often in short supply. I too would ditch the internal flash unit to get a module based camera that small. Somewhere I saw some talk of replacing the conventional flash unit with led array for flash. If this were so it would open the door for an even smaller flash unit and a little more leeway on where to fit it.

Certainly if such a camera could be marketed with backward compatibility to existing modules and two or three new ones to make it more exciting it would stir the Ricoh market up a bit. If it were able to mount a FF mount module then the cat would be among the chattering pigeons. But like you I am happy with what I am got - my lust for new cameras now overcome by a bunch of crazy old MF lenses.

I don't know how well the Sony A7 type has been received down your way but up here the dealers could barely stifle a yawn. Seems like the Sony forum on dpreview has gone ape but that is about as far as it has gone. From my venture into the NEX6 to use with my Canon EF lenses via an electronic adapter I find the NEX6 "nice cam, but very basic" after the GXR. I really like the built in evf and the tilt screen is handy but not essential. The camera can take great images but not a lot of deep thought has gone into the firmware of button layout. Imagine: the NEX has no (nil, zero) custom modes. The A7 has two but I await handling an A7 if ever a local dealer bothers to get one in. I suspect that the A7 might be streets ahead of the NEX in sophistication but still streets behind the GXR. But one can hardly tell as if that is all you have seen it must be pretty good. Evidence the Sony focus peaking - NEX and A7 users call it "the best in the business" quite regularly but of course they have never seen the dual Ricoh versions.

Anyway once the hullabaloo over the A7 has died down maybe Sony will run a batch of FF sensor for Ricoh to play with?

Best if we wait to be surprised, might be quite a wait ...

Tom
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Re: The next Ricoh GR

Postby Blow-in » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:23 am

Tom,

Those are a couple of excellent posts. As it happens I do carry my GRD4 in a pocket but it is adequately protected with the GC4 (I think that's the number) 'ever ready' case and my pockets are Barbour sized for much of the year (so perhaps pocketability is climatically related?). I'm a late adapter with the GXR but really like it and was thinking the other day that the A12 28 module is still quite compact and would also work quite well in an 'ever ready' case (I know Ricoh did make one but I think the top part was quite large so that it would accommodate the A12 50). So one question that remains open is how does the GR compare against the GXR A12 28 both physically and in use? This is a question I can't answer as I don't have a GR. While I would expect the GR sensor to be streets ahead especially with high ISO performance and the GR has many of the clever features of the GRDs, the A12 28 lens seems really good to me and I value the focus ring despite the usual disclaimer of fly by wire. I suspect the GXR might be better capable of surviving rough handling.

I think Ricoh may have confused the market a bit with the S & P 10 which were neither 'fish nor fowl' (small sensor in a 'big' body) but the A12s are great and clearly loved by most of us that own them. I'm still missing that A12 85 that would complete my system (as I don't have a bag full of old lenses collecting dust). So I would support a GXR2 approach and leave the GR just where it is.

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