GRDIII specimen set up matrix for boxes

[Tom Caldwell]

Tommy

Thanks for your reply - it is good to get feedback as you know that you are not just talking to yourself (and being slightly mad).

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a 'floating' set of changes in the model I have proposed. It is more natural and you just have to get the idea of use in your head. The whole concept of Box modes supporting My modes is a brilliant innovation. Perhaps we might see some more of this for other 'high level' cameras? I don't think it will catch on generally as you have to be committed to working your camera in detail and the concept does take some mental adjustment - consequently it would be more of a disincentive to anyone who just wants to switch a camera on and 'take photographs'. However the question begging to be asked is that the same 'everyone' is trying to find the camera that makes every photograph they take perfect - why then do they wish to have 'auto mode'. Probably because they are busy or mentally lazy or both - one might then wonder why they bang on about great camera IQ if they are not using their personal IQ to make their photography better? The silly part of this whole argument is that if you spend a bit of time getting your Box modes tuned (it can be fun as well) then the future use of a GRDIII with your Box settings just right for your purpose should be simplicity itself - but erase your boxes before you ever sell it or you will be handing a killer machine to the next owner (smile).

Returning to the subject: I can see no reason why Box/My mode swapping as Pavel mentioned could not co-exist with the current method of use - but I would be very sad if Box/My mode swapping replaced the current path: Test in camera -> Box mode -> My mode -> alteration in use -> My mode (or save in Box) - the whole idea is positively brilliant once you get your head around it. However if you could swap Box/My modes as well then our heads would really be in a spin until we assimilated the complexity.

I knew that the GRD had ttl metering and the R series Flashmatic. However Ricoh obviously had some sort of proprietary tweak there that allowed the camera to read exposure and adjust it to what the EV control was telling it. I agree that the EV was always lower when flash was used and therefore had to be reset for non-flash use. It was just simpler that way. Now that the GRDIII has FVC and EVC that seem to work together as you might expect ie: FVC = coarse adjustment and EVC = fine adjustment I am happy and Ricoh now throw in a manual flash control for good measure - great thinking and probably one up on the other manufacturers who 'merely' give us FVC and EVC where I am not sure if they actually talk to one another.

I am still not sure if the CX flash works the same way - a few quick tests I did said not. I will have to give it another try. Common sense says it should work: big stick / small stick as in the GRDIII. If they don't work together then one might wonder how to adjust the EVC when flash is being used.

PS if Ricoh wants me to review their firmware/cameras before release - please just send me a copy (grin).

[Tom Caldwell]

The last silly remark reminded me of another earlier allusion to a technical manual.

Ricoh manuals are still written for committed users who actually read them - many will never plumb the depths of their camera because they will just learn the basics and reading manuals is just too hard.

I am the same way with TV's, computers and video recorders - just try and figure out the cables, walk through the set up process, cursing all the way and impatiently head for the moment when the durned box will give the gratification of just working well enough to do is job.

With cameras I read the manuals and press all the buttons until I figure out how to make them sing and dance. However the manuals don't really go into great depth and some items are only alluded to in a little (almost afterthought) note. Other useful functions are not explained at all and I think that there are probable nuances that are never really teased out - sometimes found out by accident.

The interaction of Box/My modes is a good example. It is barely documented and could fill quite a few more pages of the manual. Notably the Box mode edit menu is different from the other menus and contains settable functions that are not accessible elsewhere.

Now manuals are expensive and have to be pitched at general user level. Furthermore even the exquisite GRDIII has users that are capable of using it very well but neither wish to delve deeply into a manual nor do Ricoh necessarily wish to frighten off potential purchasers with manuals as big as a dictionary.

My point was that the GRDIII (especially) is deep enough to require a separate technical manual. I suggest that Ricoh should explain the philosophy of the camera and how it can be made to work at its best in a separate technical Manual that might be downloadable from their site. This would make it cheaper to produce and also hide the complexity from those that do not need it but at the same time give more committed manual-fanatics a chance to get their teeth into the real stuff.

For example a sample spreadsheet-type layout for Boxes as per my own spreadsheet effort would be part of this as well as my thoughts on how the Box/My modes might interact. There are other areas but I just use what is more obvious to me. I am sure that I and many others would be happy to have our technical ramblings submitted and then worked over by an experienced manual writer for this purpose.

There is no doubt that using this forum and others can disseminate the information quite effectively without need of input from Ricoh however I might be wrong in some of my assumptions and there is a lot of wind and hot air being cast about as I and others blunder about in the semi-light of knowledge found by testing (rather than by informed) trying to find the exact processes and answers.

[KaRoy]

Tom, much thanks for your insightful comments on educating GRD III users about the box settings usage scenarios. I am sure it will lead to new discoveries by people both in their understanding of the camera, as well as in their photography. I know I am already planning my Box Settings and how and when I'd copy them into My Settings.

What I think you could consider as a way of sharing the spreadsheet is by having it community edited, or managed through a site like Google Docs, or Scribd. Perhaps you and Pavel would be owners of the master doc and take in additions via either permission based access, or manually allow them to be merged, as you see fit. There are other sites for document sharing, obviously, this is just an idea to perk your interests.

As to socializing the concepts involved here, perhaps a well rounded user story might be added to the document, so as to illustrate the points beyond the time-saving effort needed to recreate useful settings. This story, or perhaps even stories with the help of many, would give insight into how particular settings affect some in their creative efforts.

Finally, I fully agree with Pavel that Ricoh should provide presets for these boxes, perhaps attached to a firmware update, to illustrate the creative possibilities and encourage the experimenters out there. Is there a way for an email-write-in campaign to be initiated towards this that Ricoh would take seriously?

Thanks again for all of you making this happen!
Karoy

[Tom Caldwell]

KaRoy

Thanks for your insights and I find your thoughts helpful. I am not aware (or was not previously aware) of community edited documents but it seems a good way to handle and manage a Ricoh-user tool such as my spreadsheet was designed to be.

Recognition for ones efforts is often the best form of payment. Thank you.

Pavel may have an opinion on this.

I would suggest that the principle of laziness will prevail for most and the majority of GRDIII users will never fully explore the Box modes or really use them unless Ricoh set up some specimens. However to set up specimens might be an 'Aunt Sally' where targets are made only to have rocks thrown at them. I guess the first thing Ricoh might get is criticism that they are not suitable, not good enough, or just smack of being an up-market set of scene modes.

My experience has been - a good bit of effort to master the Box settings - set up a few and then sort of just use the modes set in My Modes to the point that I am starting to glaze over on the finer points - even on my own rhetoric.

The GRDIII needs constant nourishment and one must continue to play with her regularly less we forget which buttons we have to press to make her smile (and just giggle a little).

Other cameras I can put down for months and then pick them up and be away again. It is not that the GRDIII is hard to use - it's just that I cannot always remember those little secret tricks - I will have to get the manual out so that I can remember how to magnify the screen for fine focusing - is it hold the ok button in? or ... Just checked - right first time - nice that you are not forced to use it. But unless you re-try it every so often it is easy to forget.

Remember that if you are in a My mode then press: Menu - Up Arrow - Menu - then half press shutter you are in whatever PASM mode you selected to 'go' with that My setting and you can now adjust your manual settings without ever leaving the basic My mode that you had selected and without altering your remembered PASM mode settings. Neat trick but you have to practice it and also decide and set up what mode you exit into. Also you are not changing your My mode in the process unless you decide to save these settings. It has the ability to make any aspiring photographic genius the star that they want to be once mastered but it might just bee too heavy for many.

But this is what I am saying over and over again. The GRDI&II were simple powerful tools. The GRDIII is similar and can be used that way just as well but it has a few afterburners built in that once ignited can make this little baby fly in the right hands.

Tom

[Tom Caldwell]

Just experimented with live theatre shots from the audience using the GRDIII in silent mode.

Several things came of this some good and some bad.

My tests of the GRDIII at a circus with my 'circus' settings showed that it can work well for this use even if the wide is a bit limiting - the atmosphere can be caught and the wide range of lighting can be coped with - especially by correcting the image lighting casts and tweaking dynamic range through raw capture.

I had my 'quiet' mode set up more for street type shooting so I corrected it and saved this back into camera closer to 'circus' as an amended My mode. This worked well enough but the circumstances of being in an audience meant that I was shooting blind and relying solely on the focus tell-tale. I could not review what I had captured until interval. After interval for some reason unknown to myself I must have copied my Box setting for quiet mode back uo to the My mode I was using and of course the remaining images were horribly over-exposed. To simply take 'circus' mode and make it 'quiet' with one click would have been a dream.

This brings to the fore the need for a one-click switch to silent & quiet mode that can be applied to any other Box/My setting currently in use. A user cannot predict what sort of quiet mode might be necessary as quiet can apply to a lot of different lighting and location circumstances. As setting the camera to quiet requires up to five different adjustments currently and these are scattered through the menu it is not a real possibility to do this quickly when it is needed.

In my chart I have put blue rectangles and joining lines to show which settings are linked - it can readily be seen that the quiet mode settings are the most awkward to implement. I have not even tried to venture the sound settings as well - I switch all noises off on all my digital cameras - others who might switch sound off only for a quiet mode have added complications.

Tom

[Tom Caldwell]

To simply take 'circus' mode and make it 'quiet' with one click would have been a dream.

This brings to the fore the need for a one-click switch to silent & quiet mode that can be applied to any other Box/My setting currently in use. A user cannot predict what sort of quiet mode might be necessary as quiet can apply to a lot of different lighting and location circumstances. As setting the camera to quiet requires up to five different adjustments currently and these are scattered through the menu it is not a real possibility to do this quickly when it is needed.

In my chart I have put blue rectangles and joining lines to show which settings are linked - it can readily be seen that the quiet mode settings are the most awkward to implement. I have not even tried to venture the sound settings as well - I switch all noises off on all my digital cameras - others who might switch sound off only for a quiet mode have added complications.

Tom

There are moments when you get a sudden flash of inspiration. After worrying about multiple quiet modes I found a simple way.

[Tom Caldwell]

I had thought I would specifically have to set up a quiet mode and was asking for a single toggle to do this. The single toggle might still be a good idea but there is a pretty good work-around available right now.

The modes: Power Button Lamp; AF Aux Light; LCD Confirmation Time; and Information Display Mode are global and once set affect all setups used. Therefore if you can live with the first three off and the last on for all setups then there is scope for quiet mode. In fact the only setting that is assignable to seperate settings is the Display Mode.

Consequently if the first four are set globally the only one that differs from quiet mode is the display. Well, hang-on, the display is controlled seperately by the Display Button. Uh oh - doh, slap on forehead ....

No need to set Quiet as any specific separate mode - scratch one mode necessary - just set the global settings correctly and then any setting can become a 'Quiet' mode - whoopee - ideal. Set mode then press display until the screen goes off ...

Wait a minute - the Information Display Mode does not come on when this happens like it does otherwise - bother!

Everything appears dead - but the camera is fully functioning.

... but press F1 (left arrow) and the information display (only) lights up on demand (for a second or so) - neat.

All is forgiven - this is another easy set up and logical action once we work out the undocumented feature. Now I can have quiet mode over any other set up used.

[Tom Caldwell]

I am loading up a revised Setup Modes Matrix Spreadsheet

Changes - I have dumped 'quiet' mode in the light of the fact that I no longer think it necessary as a separate mode. I have added a 'Macro' mode and a 'DOF' mode which is similar to 'Good Light' except starts at Aperture = F9.0. Call DOF 'Landscape' and Good Light 'Portrait' if you wish. Circus is still shown as Circus but 'Spotlight' might be better as it is a mode for capturing subjects under strong light without them getting blown away. I have also tidied up the general detail and added a summary of some shortcuts at the foot - let me know if I have missed any. In view of the fact that the GRDIII stores raw files at a reasonable speed I have now moved to raw format for everything except 'Quick'.

RicohGRDIII.xls

(23 KiB) Downloaded 130 times

The spreadsheet is still quite colourful - I intend to remove the colour scheme once I have settled it down a bit - in the meantime it helps me find the settings I have more or less decided on and separates out the less important settings and the ones that I am just trialling.

No doubt anyone that cares to use it will make their own decisions and adapt to suit.

I don't think it would serve much purpose to continue to post up variations - it will just get confusing - I hope this is of use to those who need a place just to start from.

Tom

[odklizec]

Hi Tom,

What do you think, should I start new topic just for Matrix files? The problem of current post is that people may overlook the attached matrix file. So maybe a separate topic just for attached matrix files and index of available matrixes in first post (done by me) could be much more reliable solution?

[Tom Caldwell]

Yes I agree Pavel

I sort of get verbose and off the subject a bit.

The latest spreadsheet upload will supersede any earlier references - it will be a works in progress for some time yet but I tought it might be a stater and time saver for those that wish to follow this path.

Others might well embellish it and perhaps one day some sort of subset can find its way into an official GRD manual?

My duh-oh moment over Quiet mode does make the fact that many of the silent mode switches are global more relevent - they had best stay outside individual boxes now that I happened upon an easy-fix. But most might wish to be able to switch silent mode features off and on more easily - almost needs a sub-setting for those items you like to be on normally ie: AF assist light = on and shutter button light = off, etc and this subset can be toggled on and off a one press - linked to display button? Disp+another button or the wheel?

Please feel free to edit down my posts and just keep the knowledge bits and make it a separate reference topic - otherwise the subject is going to be buried in trivia (mostly mine) smile.