Noise reducing

Discussion forum about SILKYPIX RAW developer
Forum rules
Dedicated Silkypix forum can be found here:
http://www.silkypixforum.com

Noise reducing

Postby Marko » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:04 pm

Hi folks.

I'm new at the Ricoh Forum. I use a Ricoh GRD for my "diary" work. I'm not a big friend of the RAW ability from the first version GRD (it's to slow and I must go a detour over a RAW developer). But I have read that the RAW format can reduce the noise more better then a jpg format at the GRD. For reducing noise at the jpg format I use Noise Ninja. Very nice software and I'm happy with it. But a question I have in my mind. If I shoot at ISO 800 a RAW format file and reduce the noise with the Silkypix software I found no bigger difference as if I shoot at ISO 800 in jpg format and work on it with Noise Ninja! Is there something wrong with my eyes? Or is there a special way to reducing noise with Silkypix?

Thank you..

--Marko
Marko
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:20 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Noise reducing

Postby Colman » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:28 pm

I shoot raw, export from Aperture as a tif - which is pretty much lossless - and use Noise Ninja to do the noise reduction. That might work better for you, especially after you set-up profiles for the GRD in Noise Ninja.
Colman
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:09 pm

Re: Noise reducing

Postby Marko » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:53 pm

Hi Colman.

Thank you for the answer. You think it's better to make the RAW Development with Apple Aperture and the noise correction with Noise Ninja. Hmm, luckily I'm a iMac user :lol: ..

Thanks..

--Marko
Marko
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:20 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Noise reducing

Postby Colman » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:35 pm

I don't find Noise Ninja necessary unless I'm shooting at high ISO, but Aperture's noise reduction isn't up to much.
Colman
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:09 pm

Re: Noise reducing

Postby odklizec » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:42 am

Marko, the major advantage of GRD RAW is in preserved noise and so tiny details! If I can recommend you something, don't even try to eliminate all noise form your photo! The reason why so many GRDI photos look so good is the noise! Not the lack of noise! The light noise (grain) is visible even in GRD ISO100 photos and gave them a very fine look. And this is also the reason why so many people are not so excited about the GRDII JPEG.

If you need to do something about noise, then clean only the color noise. This is just enough for most of high ISO shots up to ISO800. This can be done by dragging the "False Color ctrl" slider to right. The rest of noise reduction sliders move completely to left (0).

This method of color noise reduction can even be improved by using the "Fine Color Controller". This usually overlooked feature can be very helpful with reducing the obtrusive color noise. For example, the biggest problem in high ISO nigh shots is the high amount of magenta colored pixels. A very good idea (depending on particular photo and color mood of the photo) is to make these magenta pixels a bit lighter (increase lightness let's say to +5 or 10%) and then decrease their saturation (to -20% or lower). But again, this depends of the particular photo and overall colors. So it requires some trial&error tests.

What I always do first is the "Fine Color" tuning (right after turning all noise reduction sliders down) and only after that I'm playing with False Color ctrl slider, until I'm not happy with the result. But I do this only for photos taken over ISO 400. I don't even think about cleaning shots up to ISO400 ;) There is just no need of doing that.
Pavel Kudrys
---
Flickr gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/odklizec/
User avatar
odklizec
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6037
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:10 pm
Location: Today in Slovakia

Re: Noise reducing

Postby Marko » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:59 pm

Hi Odklizec.

At first a greeting from the neighbor country East Germany ;) I have seen that the noise of the GRDI looks like film grain - i love this camera for these effect (also that i can handle with a external viewfinder like on my Leica IIIa). My favorite shooting time is at night with ISO 800. And there is also the problem. The noise looks at these high ISO range not so good! Color is no problem - i shoot only b/w. My way is to clean up the ISO 800 file with Noise Ninja and then i give the picture a real looking film grain with a special Photoshop filter. The advance is, that Noise Ninja makes the picture a little bit unsharpened and more film like. These effect i cannot get with Photoshop! But if i will make a enlargement (A3 for a exhibition for example) the noise comes up ugly visible. So my plan is to produce a not so noisy ISO 800 file, then a little bit Noise Ninja and Photoshop work and that's it. So my eyes are now on the RAW format. I think that this format has a better ground noise as the jpg format! But my first test's are not very hopefully! I feel no difference!
Marko
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:20 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Noise reducing

Postby Colman » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:02 pm

Did you go through the process of creating noise profiles at ISO800 for the GR-D II? That seems to do a reasonable job straight off.
Colman
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:09 pm

Re: Noise reducing

Postby Marko » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:39 am

Colman,

i use a GRD I. On my Noise Ninja are working the profiles from the PictureCode Website (see profile download section - Ricoh GR Digital). I'm very happy with these profiles. The GRD II is to new for me! Many bugs are not fixed at this time (for example the NR off problem). I will wait and look at the Firmware updates. :shock:
Marko
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:20 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Noise reducing

Postby odklizec » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:18 pm

Hi Marco! The truth is that GRDII JPEG does not look so good because of much higher NR done over the photos at all ISO levels. GRD does virtually no NR in JPEG shots at ISO64-400 and only small at ISO800-1600. And this is (in my opinion) what makes the GRD pictures so nice. There are simply more details left. The color noise can be relative easy suppressed and the other noise is..well..just nice kind of noise ;) People (and camera reviewers) are too obsessed about clean pictures.

My advice is to use RAW with all small sensor cameras. This is the way how to get maximum out of the mall sensor cameras. Noise can be reduced with NoiseNinja or similar denoiser. But the same as in Silkypix, it requires many tests. I don't think there is a chance to create an universal and always working set of noise profiles. Each photo is different and requires another noise treatment. However, one can create a large set of noise profiles, apply them one after another for each new processed photo end select the one, which works best. The good thing on Silkypix is that you can quickly switch between the noise profiles (and all sikypix settings) using the arrow keys in "Saved Settings" combo boxes. In other words, you don't need to hassle with File Open dialog and browse the file/folder structure.
Pavel Kudrys
---
Flickr gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/odklizec/
User avatar
odklizec
Site Admin
 
Posts: 6037
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:10 pm
Location: Today in Slovakia


Return to SILKYPIX

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron