GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Discussion about Ricoh GR Digital II

Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby lucridders » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:02 am

Can you do once the following test:
Put a newspaper against the wall (not flat, but little bit with cracks in it) and at the same 28mm per example you take a shot. Take however care that camera is at exact same place. Newspaper has to fill the complete scene. Take also if possible a page with one side colored pictures and other side just text. I like to see the difference between GX100, GRDI and II his way. All cmas in standaard autoseting.
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Re: RAW speed?

Postby odklizec » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:34 pm

John Carolan wrote:whats the performance like when taking shots in RAW mode? How long is the delay between shots?

Please, look at this post.
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=459

These timings are pure "shot to write" time for one RAW. Unfortunately, the two Class6 Panasonic cards I ordered 14days ago did not arrive yet, so I'm forced to use these two slow and small cards. But even with "slow" Transcend, the RAW writing time is only a bit slower than claimed by Ricoh (3.8sec). I suppose the RAW writing with Panasonic cards will be even faster.

As for the delay between the RAW shots, there is not any noticeable (obtrusive) delay! Thanks to GRD2 dual buffer, you can take another RAW shot immediately after the previous one (requires fast card)! So if you have fast enough SD card, you can take one RAW after another without (almost) any waiting. I'm curious why Ricoh did not allow at least 2 consecutive RAW shots with a small delay after both shots? It seems to me that the GRD2 is perfectly capable of such shooting performance. Currently, one have to press the shutter, release it and press the shutter again to take another RAW.

With my current (relative slow) card, I sometimes get "Writing data" message and the camera locks for about 1-2secs. But this happens only if I'm trying to take multiple RAWs in a row (without waiting for anything). But with 1sec delay between the shots (which is anyway required for refocusing or review the previous shot) you shouldn't see this message.
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby odklizec » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:53 pm

lucridders wrote:Can you do once the following test:
Put a newspaper against the wall (not flat, but little bit with cracks in it) and at the same 28mm per example you take a shot. Take however care that camera is at exact same place. Newspaper has to fill the complete scene. Take also if possible a page with one side colored pictures and other side just text. I like to see the difference between GX100, GRDI and II his way. All cmas in standaard autoseting.

I don't have the GX100 so at the moment, I can offer only the GRD/GRD2 comparisons. I'm now using both cameras mainly in auto to see how both cameras performs in auto mode and under the same lightning conditions. For now it looks the GRD2 auto WB is significantly better (closer to reality).
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby lucridders » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:12 pm

If possible and you can do it for the GRD and GRDII. Would be nice to see the difference. And if possible that can be downloaded in real format. So, I can do an opical comparisation on a screen from 3 by 4 meter. And seeing optically is quite different than on a computerscreen (screens are destroying in fact lots of the performance a camera can give).
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RAW/banding etc

Postby John Carolan » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:24 pm

Sorry Pavel I hadn't noticed the other post about RAW performance thanks for pointing me to it. Very impressive. I suspect I'm going to have to bow to the inevitable and order a GR2 very soon...although I'm looking forward to reading your continued testing. In particular, something I and others have noticed with the GR on occasion was banding, generally in the darker areas of high iso images see http://www.johncarolan.co.uk/tokyo/_0026272.JPG for example. My theory is this is caused by the lens mechanism, but that's just a guess. I would be interested in finding out if a similar issue occurs with the GR2. There is also a post about it occurring with the GX100 on DPreview http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1013&message=25686841 you may have seen but the examples have since been removed.
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby PPL » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:45 pm

Hello,
THANKS for your review.

You have said that the focus is less noisy. But what about the speed ? Is it the same that the GRD 1.? :?:
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby F. Stop Fitzgerald » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:06 pm

Dear Pavel:

I would like to purchase a GRD II, mainly because I need a small, wide angle, RAW camera, with fast manual controls for exposure. I had heard that the new GRD changed the original rear wheel for a lever type control.

If you set the camera to manual, how easy is it to use the GRD II rear lever when quickly changing the shutter speed?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby odklizec » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:15 pm

PPL wrote:Hello,
THANKS for your review.

You have said that the focus is less noisy. But what about the speed ? Is it the same that the GRD 1.? :?:
I already posted something about GRD/GRD focusing here:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=455&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p1799

But I'm still investigating this area. It seems to me, that the GRD2 CCD based autofocus is quicker than then one in GRD. But the passive GRD focus seems to be still faster in some cases. The problem with GRD phase detection is that it works well only with contrast scenes and with enough available light. If there is not enough light, the phase detection focus is skipped and the CCD based focus is started. But it's noticeable slower in GRD.

However, these results are based of my short experience with both cameras (I have them only two days!). So please take them with a reservation! I will need some more time and do more tests to say something definitive ;)
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby odklizec » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:02 pm

F. Stop Fitzgerald wrote:Dear Pavel:

I would like to purchase a GRD II, mainly because I need a small, wide angle, RAW camera, with fast manual controls for exposure. I had heard that the new GRD changed the original rear wheel for a lever type control.

If you set the camera to manual, how easy is it to use the GRD II rear lever when quickly changing the shutter speed?

Thanks in advance!

The sad truth is that the lever control is slower to use than the control wheel. I cannot imagine the reason why they replaced the control wheel with lever? Fortunately, there is a nice and very useful trick in Manual mode how to quickly set the proper exposition values. If the Zoom button is set to Exp. compensation (my preferred setting), then in Manual mode it presets the correct exposure values. So instead of pushing the lever like a mad, you just have to press the "Zoom" button, it sets the correct exposure values and you can then fine-tune them with lever. Not ideal, but better than pushing the lever all the time.
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Re: GRD II arrived! Let the testing begin!

Postby odklizec » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:48 pm

While uploading GRD/GRDII ISO samples, I would like to tell you about two tiny, but very useful improvements in GRDII. They are not mentioned in any Ricoh marketing materials, but they are serious improvements in the camera workflow!

For example, if you set the camera to self-timer mode, it remains in this mode until you select other mode. And this is a huge help if you need to take several consecutive self-timer shots! Previously, you had to set the camera to self timer again and again..and again...

Another improvement is in review after shot mode. If you change the "Image Confirmation" to Hold, you can zoom or even delete the shot right in review mode (without switching the camera to playback mode).

Both features are small but definitely welcome improvements. Believe or not, but I don't have such simple options even in my DSLR!!!
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